Transgender inmates had previously sued the state, arguing that keeping trans women in men’s prisons violated the Eighth Amendment.
I’m all for trans rights, but I’m not sure what people want prisons to actually do here.
So the issue is, trans women want to be housed in women’s facilities. But the state says they are biologically male, so they are housed in men’s facilities. Trans advocates are saying they are subject to sexual assault in men’s prisons more so than male inmates because they present as female.
The problem with citing the Eighth Amendment (freedom from cruel and unusual punishment) is that it does not exclusively apply to transgender inmates — and I don’t think anyone is suggesting it does. The issue is the women in women’s prisons, if you introduce a person who is (in the eyes of the law) biologically male, you’re violating the Eighth Amendment of the women at the women’s prison. At that point, if a person can just choose which prison they go to, why not just integrate them? This would cost more and have higher taxes, and nobody wants to pay that.
I did a bit of Googling, and I’m no expert, but it seems like some states will house a trans woman in a women’s prison if she’s had bottom surgery (that is, she has a vagina), and in some cases, has changed her official identification (which requires the bottom surgery). The issue here is, not every trans person wants bottom surgery. There are plenty of trans women who have penises, and they want to be housed at a women’s prison — honestly, not unlike cis male inmates at a male facility, they would love to be the only penis-having inmate at the women’s prison.
And therein lies the problem. It seems like the states are saying “you have a penis, you go to a men’s prison, you have a vagina, you go to the women’s prison.” It’s not about trans people because (at least in some cases) it isn’t affecting trans people who have completed bottom surgery.
I don’t know what we can or should do about it. I do know the US has taken steps to prevent prison rape. If a person assigned male at birth is taking steps to present as female, but has not (or does not want to) completed bottom surgery, it seems like prison is not a good place for them.
So maybe we should stop saying “be gay, do crime”. Because that sounds like the worst thing a gay (or any LGBTQ+ person) could do.
Final thought: not everyone with a penis will rape someone with a vagina and/or presenting as a female given the opportunity. If that were the case, you wouldn’t be able to have daughters if you have sons and vice-versa. Some states do require separate bedrooms/changing areas past a certain age, but requiring them to be housed separately would not work in our society. Growing up Gen X, I personally did not have sisters, but I knew guys who did, and they would be alone with their sisters (sometimes also with 1-3 brothers as well, with the girl the only girl there) and I never heard about any sexual assaulting. Granted those are siblings, but still. Most people don’t want to rape anybody, even if they have the means and opportunity.
You ditch the whole ‘biological male/female’ crap, which is right-wing transphobe talking points and put people where they belong based on their gender. And cis women can and do rape other women, so that whole argument is pointless.
Also please look at what happens to trans women in prisons.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V-coding
They are turned into literal rape objects for aggressive men to make them less aggressive.
Starts comment “I’m all for trans rights, but” rest of comment is against trans rights. Yeah that checks out.
Hi, resident of Oregon here!
Oregon doesn’t mandate anything more than self-attestation to get a gender change on their documents. Anyone can do it at any time.
Furthermore, HRT is ultimately all that’s needed to “make someone a biological woman.” Trans women are much closer to cis women, physically speaking, than to cis men.
Furthermore than that, women of any variety shouldn’t be locked up with men. That’s a recipe for sexual violence, and prisoners don’t deserve sexual violence. No one deserves sexual violence, not even the people who perpetrate it. We’re a civilized society, dammit.
Yes because sex only happens when there’s a penis and a vagina together. No other sex happens in prisons.
Mhmm.
And really I bet those trans woman planned this all out. I bet it was their intention to have their freedom taken away so they could sneak into that sweet juicy American women’s prison system, so they can fuck pussy all day and all night, as trans women are known to do.
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I’m not sure what people want prisons to actually do here.
Be abolished.
Okay, a lot of people feel that way. So, how many convicted murderers are you willing to take in? What about people who have assaulted children? Are you willing to trust them around your children because you feel society has failed them?
A lot of people want all the inmates let out, but not in their backyard. They typically want them released in the backyards of people they don’t like. In other words, they want to weaponise them.
So then you have the issue of “what do we do with people we deem a threat to society”?
Bespoke take tbh
Paragraphs and paragraphs.
You give them the bottom surgery, and then the problem you complained about ceases to be a problem.
I agree the bottom surgery should be an option, but not every trans person wants bottom surgery.
And what do you mean by “you give”? Should the taxpayers pay for it? I do not think bottom surgery is cheap.
Some people turn to crime to get three hots and a cot. It’s offensive to say, but people have done it. Jail/prison sucks, but homelessness sucks worse and some people have made that choice. If jail/prison is also a way to get free (taxpayer funded) bottom surgery, I can see people going that route.
Of course, if you want to make an argument for socialised medicine, I will agree, so we can skip that whole runaround. The general problem with socialised medicine is higher taxes, and I think you get longer wait times since more people are going in for care, but ultimately I believe it makes a people more healthy.
There are plenty of trans women who have penises, and they want to be housed at a women’s prison — honestly, not unlike cis male inmates at a male facility, they would love to be the only penis-having inmate at the women’s prison.
What in the Sam Hill are you talking about? Putting aside the extreme weirdness of this comment… you do understand not all trans women are attracted to other women, right?.. and that not all trans women who want bottom surgery have gotten it yet, or can afford it?..
What a weird, weird angle to approach this from.
Growing up Gen X, I personally did not have sisters, but I knew guys who did, and they would be alone with their sisters (sometimes also with 1-3 brothers as well, with the girl the only girl there) and I never heard about any sexual assaulting.
I don’t know where to start honestly. Nice anecdote, I guess.
Here, why don’t you educate yourself with some nice reading about the rates of incest crimes and rates of sexual assault on trans women instead of posting weird stuff on lemmy.
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