The best part of about a “tip tax” is that it would be completely optional. If you don’t want to pay it, simply eat at home or make some other arrangements.
Which could be accomplished by simply raising prices by that amount and then paying the staff appropriately and not have this end run around complicating mess.
The staff would hate that. None of them want it. 20% is far more than what they would be paid even under “a living wage”. They know it, the restaurant knows it.
Its really fucking weird getting down voted and then insulted when chances are you have never had this conversation or worked with people in this industry.
Many restaurants have tried this. The staff do not want it: it always pays much less, and keeps them from being able to pull better nights than others.
Yes outside of america it works, but once you get a taste of that income with tipping, you dont want less.
I’ll even back this up:
“The survey data is crystal clear: Tipped employees overwhelmingly prefer the current tip credit payment system, and they don’t want it to change,” Corder said in a statement provided to Restaurant Business. “It’s rare to find an issue that commands such widespread support across diverse age, race, gender and geographic groups.”
The survey data is crystal clear: Tipped employees overwhelmingly prefer the current tip credit payment system, and they don’t want it to change,” Corder said in a statement provided to Restaurant Business. “It’s rare to find an issue that commands such widespread support across diverse age, race, gender and geographic groups.”
“The survey was conducted by CorCom, Inc. of nearly 4,000 tipped employees in states facing tip credit elimination threats this year.”
Ah yes, a study of 4000 people about to lose their tips would certainly prefer getting tips
Thats fair, I didn’t go that far down to verify the funding, in my source it only said it was conducted by Lloyd Corder, an adjunct professor at Carnegie Mellon University.
I can accept that the industry shapes the narrative, and pointing out who funded this one is doing exactly that.
But it was only one of many, and I will die on this hill: everyone I know does not want to stop making 40 - 50 dollars an hour, and they KNOW that will happen. They worry they will work longer with worse shifts.
Every single restaurant that has tried this in cities I visit has failed. The good servers and bartenders go where the money is.
Personally, yes tipping needs to go away, but everytime I see it tried, it fails.
And I believe the overall quality of life would be better without tips (health care, security, etc) and I don’t want them. Hopefully we do get to that point.
The one thing I keep thinking that would have to change for the US: universal health care and paid time off.
Security would make the workers better off. But good luck getting that.
Here’s the wild part, I’m fully in favour of having tips, but not as an alternative to the company that owns the bar or restaurant paying the staff a legally mandated livable minimum wage, I want tips to be a sign of a happy customer and for the server working to be able to put their whole ass into earning those tips, without worrying that some kyle or karen in a bad mood means that they earn less that day.
100% with you on nationally funded healthcare (I have no idea how americans deal with paying ludicrous taxes then being charged for a hospital visit, then having their medication denied by an insurance company that has no medical knowledge.)
I have, in fact, worked for tips so don’t assume shit about me. I have also worked for minimum wage, with no avenue for tips.
As someone who lives in a country with worker’s rights, I will admit even when I was working for tips, the place I worked was legally required to pay minimum wage. (they just get around that by making it so they don’t have to give you the hours, fuck zero hour contracts)
Even then, there were people who weren’t making enough to do anything but rent a room somewhere and MAYBE go out for a drink at their local once a week.
It’s definitely more accurate to say people prefer having contracted hours, and a wage they can live off, than the threat of starvation and homelessness if they don’t smile hard enough to make some geriatric fart take pity and throw them some spare change.
My experience has been the opposite: they have tried restaurants over they years in several cities I have lived in and they never last. I will say the time of day, the type of place matter of course.
They never lasted, the good people would go on to working shifts that paid much better. Everytime. Why earn 20 to 30 an hour when you can do 40 to 50?
This is why a universal standard of minimum wage being livable is a bonus. If a restaurant pays better, by having a higher baseline wage, then the tips actually count as tips, the staff are happier and the service is better.
Lmao i was just about to call you out on you not backing up shit without a link and only text, but then i saw others having found your “source” already hahha get bent leather gourmand
So I didn’t follow it back to the souce. Doesnt matter. I shouldnt bother replying to you because you are simply wanting to be an asshat who has a gotcha. You people suck, no intellectual desires at all.
I will die on this hill. I have seen restaurants try and fail. I have known and worked with enough people that hate this idea. The don’t want their wages cut, and they know it will.
UNLESS: These two always come up, and its reasonable: profit sharing or commissions. People are nervous about profit sharing (its the food biz after all) and comissions are just tips with extra steps.
And me personally? I think everyone should earn the same: an hour work is the same no matter who you are, so its not like I want tipping.
But your silly ass “gotcha” aside, I will concede that there is a lot of pressure to keep status quo. I have worked with restaurant owners and told them: show your staff how much money you are making everynight. They are doing the work, make them see what they are getting out of it. Restaurants budgets are tight.
I despise 20%. I tolerated 10, maybe 15, but when it became 20 as the baseline with 30 now looming on the horizen, I am about to just say get bent.
The prices have gone up, so the tips have gone up. Why did they make the leap to 20%? Basically its like adding another person to the table.
Now I know people will say they should be paid a living wage, but from every server I know they absolutely do not want that. They want the tips, it pays better.
I don’t know what the solution is. The people who make real money make far beyond that, and there is no doubt the cost of living is through the roof. I cant fault someone for wanting to get a little more, but I am just not going to keep shelling out 20% more on top of dinner that already is 2 people for $150 before tip.
It has been 20 for like 20 years. Anything else is foolish. Any argument for 30 that involves “inflation” is stupid and doesn’t understand how percents work. Like 20 or not, that’s the norm. If you don’t like paying it then either don’t go out or go places that are cheaper so it’s less.
Naw fuck that. They get tipped what they earned. If it’s 5$. If it’s 30$. It in the rare case, 0. You don’t deserve a tip unless you provide the service to go with it. If I see you once or twice, and I have dirty dishes and have to call over another wait staff to refill drinks. Get fucked.
Yeah, it’s like if you aren’t prepared to tip the standard tip, you shouldn’t go out. If people want to argue that bad service deserves less and good service deserves more, that’s fine, but if you aren’t even ready to consider that you’ll likely need to pay 20% then just don’t go.
Seriously, it isn’t that hard. There’s plenty of lesser quality but still very good chains to choose from in the Five Guys tier if you don’t want to tip.
Hell, guess what I do when I don’t want to tip, I go to one of those lol, it’s not like I don’t practice what I preach here!
Once in a great while. Is not often I get someone so bad at their job they don’t deserve at least a little. It’s hilarious that dumb fucks here downvote me for saying tipping is a service based monetary gift.
Nobody ever said it was anything else, it’s just weird that the first thing someone would say in response to what percentage tip is appropriate to say you give nothing. It makes it sound like that’s a very frequent occurrence for you.
Just auto include a 20% tip in every purchase, include that in the price, and don’t leave an option for tips. Done. Problem solved.
In that case just put that price on the menu like they do in other places. Including taxes in the price would help with the confusion too.
Include it as “tip tax” and watch repubes twist themselves inside out over it
The best part of about a “tip tax” is that it would be completely optional. If you don’t want to pay it, simply eat at home or make some other arrangements.
Which could be accomplished by simply raising prices by that amount and then paying the staff appropriately and not have this end run around complicating mess.
Yeah, that’s what rising the prices and giving the staff the money is.
The staff would hate that. None of them want it. 20% is far more than what they would be paid even under “a living wage”. They know it, the restaurant knows it.
Sounds like a problem for someone that specializes in managing a restaurant.
Sounds like you don’t understand what a livable wage actually means.
Or that you’re a manager yourself and never had to live off an unlivable wage.
Sounds like you have never worked for tips.
Its really fucking weird getting down voted and then insulted when chances are you have never had this conversation or worked with people in this industry.
Many restaurants have tried this. The staff do not want it: it always pays much less, and keeps them from being able to pull better nights than others.
Yes outside of america it works, but once you get a taste of that income with tipping, you dont want less.
I’ll even back this up:
“The survey was conducted by CorCom, Inc. of nearly 4,000 tipped employees in states facing tip credit elimination threats this year.”
Ah yes, a study of 4000 people about to lose their tips would certainly prefer getting tips
Thanks for providing sources for your quotes Or were you embarrassed to say your source was " https://minimumwage.com/2024/07/survey-tipped-employees-nationwide-prefer-keeping-the-tip-credit/ "
Thats fair, I didn’t go that far down to verify the funding, in my source it only said it was conducted by Lloyd Corder, an adjunct professor at Carnegie Mellon University.
I can accept that the industry shapes the narrative, and pointing out who funded this one is doing exactly that.
But it was only one of many, and I will die on this hill: everyone I know does not want to stop making 40 - 50 dollars an hour, and they KNOW that will happen. They worry they will work longer with worse shifts.
Every single restaurant that has tried this in cities I visit has failed. The good servers and bartenders go where the money is.
Personally, yes tipping needs to go away, but everytime I see it tried, it fails.
And I believe the overall quality of life would be better without tips (health care, security, etc) and I don’t want them. Hopefully we do get to that point.
The one thing I keep thinking that would have to change for the US: universal health care and paid time off.
Security would make the workers better off. But good luck getting that.
Here’s the wild part, I’m fully in favour of having tips, but not as an alternative to the company that owns the bar or restaurant paying the staff a legally mandated livable minimum wage, I want tips to be a sign of a happy customer and for the server working to be able to put their whole ass into earning those tips, without worrying that some kyle or karen in a bad mood means that they earn less that day.
100% with you on nationally funded healthcare (I have no idea how americans deal with paying ludicrous taxes then being charged for a hospital visit, then having their medication denied by an insurance company that has no medical knowledge.)
I have, in fact, worked for tips so don’t assume shit about me. I have also worked for minimum wage, with no avenue for tips.
As someone who lives in a country with worker’s rights, I will admit even when I was working for tips, the place I worked was legally required to pay minimum wage. (they just get around that by making it so they don’t have to give you the hours, fuck zero hour contracts)
Even then, there were people who weren’t making enough to do anything but rent a room somewhere and MAYBE go out for a drink at their local once a week.
It’s definitely more accurate to say people prefer having contracted hours, and a wage they can live off, than the threat of starvation and homelessness if they don’t smile hard enough to make some geriatric fart take pity and throw them some spare change.
My experience has been the opposite: they have tried restaurants over they years in several cities I have lived in and they never last. I will say the time of day, the type of place matter of course.
They never lasted, the good people would go on to working shifts that paid much better. Everytime. Why earn 20 to 30 an hour when you can do 40 to 50?
Why wouldn’t the restaurant give them 40 per hour if that’s what they make extra by increasing the price?
This is why a universal standard of minimum wage being livable is a bonus. If a restaurant pays better, by having a higher baseline wage, then the tips actually count as tips, the staff are happier and the service is better.
Lmao i was just about to call you out on you not backing up shit without a link and only text, but then i saw others having found your “source” already hahha get bent leather gourmand
So I didn’t follow it back to the souce. Doesnt matter. I shouldnt bother replying to you because you are simply wanting to be an asshat who has a gotcha. You people suck, no intellectual desires at all.
I will die on this hill. I have seen restaurants try and fail. I have known and worked with enough people that hate this idea. The don’t want their wages cut, and they know it will.
UNLESS: These two always come up, and its reasonable: profit sharing or commissions. People are nervous about profit sharing (its the food biz after all) and comissions are just tips with extra steps.
And me personally? I think everyone should earn the same: an hour work is the same no matter who you are, so its not like I want tipping.
But your silly ass “gotcha” aside, I will concede that there is a lot of pressure to keep status quo. I have worked with restaurant owners and told them: show your staff how much money you are making everynight. They are doing the work, make them see what they are getting out of it. Restaurants budgets are tight.
Its hard to convince people to change.
If none of them want it, they shouldn’t complain when someone doesn’t pay any tips.
I despise 20%. I tolerated 10, maybe 15, but when it became 20 as the baseline with 30 now looming on the horizen, I am about to just say get bent.
The prices have gone up, so the tips have gone up. Why did they make the leap to 20%? Basically its like adding another person to the table.
Now I know people will say they should be paid a living wage, but from every server I know they absolutely do not want that. They want the tips, it pays better.
I don’t know what the solution is. The people who make real money make far beyond that, and there is no doubt the cost of living is through the roof. I cant fault someone for wanting to get a little more, but I am just not going to keep shelling out 20% more on top of dinner that already is 2 people for $150 before tip.
The only person I to 30% is my hair stylist, and that’s because she hasn’t raised my price in almost 20 years.
Does this lead to the situation in which waiters in an expensive restaurant earn significantly more than ones working in cheaper ones?
Do waiters try to get jobs in more expensive places to earn more from tips?
Yes, and yes.
I plaid 20 during COVID to show gratitude for places being open and practicing good protocols. Now I’m back to 15 unless service is extraordinary.
It has been 20 for like 20 years. Anything else is foolish. Any argument for 30 that involves “inflation” is stupid and doesn’t understand how percents work. Like 20 or not, that’s the norm. If you don’t like paying it then either don’t go out or go places that are cheaper so it’s less.
Naw fuck that. They get tipped what they earned. If it’s 5$. If it’s 30$. It in the rare case, 0. You don’t deserve a tip unless you provide the service to go with it. If I see you once or twice, and I have dirty dishes and have to call over another wait staff to refill drinks. Get fucked.
How often are you giving nothing?
(From the service they claim to get, I’d bet regularly and at the same restaurants that remember their no-tipping ass and want them to not come back.)
Yeah, it’s like if you aren’t prepared to tip the standard tip, you shouldn’t go out. If people want to argue that bad service deserves less and good service deserves more, that’s fine, but if you aren’t even ready to consider that you’ll likely need to pay 20% then just don’t go.
Seriously, it isn’t that hard. There’s plenty of lesser quality but still very good chains to choose from in the Five Guys tier if you don’t want to tip.
Hell, guess what I do when I don’t want to tip, I go to one of those lol, it’s not like I don’t practice what I preach here!
Once in a great while. Is not often I get someone so bad at their job they don’t deserve at least a little. It’s hilarious that dumb fucks here downvote me for saying tipping is a service based monetary gift.
Nobody ever said it was anything else, it’s just weird that the first thing someone would say in response to what percentage tip is appropriate to say you give nothing. It makes it sound like that’s a very frequent occurrence for you.
That’s the thing. 20% isn’t appropriate. It’s whatever the person has earned. That’s what’s appropriate.
If that’s your mentality then I feel you’re chronically under tipping.
These kind of sane solutions to problems don’t belong on the internet. We come here to be irrationally angry over everything.
this